Born Scrappy
The go-to podcast for scrap metal exporters and traders
Born Scrappy
Thinking out of the box with scrap icon Dr Salam Al Sharif
In this episode, I chat to Dr. Salam Sharif, the Chairman of Sharif Metals Group, one of the largest scrap metal exporters in the Middle East. Dr. Sharif is the former Chairman of BIR, the Founding President of the BIR, and the Director of Advocacy for the Dubai Recycling Business Group at the Dubai Chambers.
He's a civil and metallurgical engineer, with an executive MBA and a doctorate degree in Engineering and Economy. There are few people in this industry as experienced, educated and accomplished as Dr Al Sharif.
In today's episode, we talk about:
👉 Getting your hands dirty
👉 Competing strategically
👉 Acting early in a crisis
👉 Creative partnerships
👉 And much more!
Listen to the full episode. Wherever you stream your podcasts.
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WHO IS STU KAGAN ANYWAYS?
26 years in the metal recycling game and still learning and growing...
I learnt from the best and worked my way up from yard labourer to Executive Director of Trading and Operations for the largest metal recycler in sub-Saharan Africa. Responsible for 4,500 employees, 85 sites, and the overall profitability of a multi-billion dollar operation.
I brought my breadth and depth of knowledge to bear and co-founded the fastest growing, most-loved, and most awarded metal recycling company in New Zealand. No small feat in a country where people are outnumbered 4:1 by sheep (spoiler alert: sheep don’t produce much metal waste).
I thought it was time that tech worked for our industry, so I took all of my experience as an operator and trader and leveraged that to build THE killer scrap app, Buddy. That’s right - built for scrappies, by scrappies.
Father of two crazy-awesome boys. Husband to Lisa. Under 9 rugby coach. YPO member. Lifelong learner. Mentee. Mentor. Chief dog walker. Committed Stoic. Undefeated dance-off champion.
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Hi, I'm Stu Kagan and welcome to Born Scrappy, the podcast for scrap metal exporters and traders. Join me in conversation with some of the most experienced traders and operators that have helped shape this incredible industry. In this episode, I chat to Dr. Salam Sharif, the chairman of Sharif Metals Group. Dr. Sharif is also the director of advocacy for the Dubai Recycling Business Group at the Dubai Chambers. He's a civil and metallurgical engineer, graduated from Texas A& M, has his executive MBA from Cambridge and a doctorate degree in business administration, socioeconomic sustainability from London. In today's episode, we talk about getting your hands dirty, competing strategically, acting early in a crisis, creative partnerships, and much more. So let's get straight into it, but first intro. Hi, Dr. Salam. How are you? I'm very good. So how you doing, bro? Yeah, I'm great. Thank you, man. I'm, uh, I'm excited to, to have you on the show. We've spoken about it for a while. So, um, welcome to born scrappy. Well, thanks for having me. It's been a chockablock amongst a lot of activities, some to do with the business, some to do with, uh, nonprofit. Organizations. It's a mix of both, which is keeping us on high toes. Yeah, I know how busy you are because I speak to your assistant trying to find the right time for us to to lock in a time. So I know it's 10 o'clock at night now for you, but I'm just glad we can make this happen. So thank you. Yeah, thanks for your time. Um, let's kick off for those that don't know you and I doubt there's too many of them, but for those that don't. Um, tell us a bit about your background, you know, what your company does, um, how long you've been around and how you got into this industry. So, uh, I would say a lot of the businesses like ours are back into the family business background. And ours in particular was really not out of the world in terms of having a family legacy behind it. My grandpa was a coppersmith. And, uh, he did it for some time until my dad took over the business and he just had to, uh, evolve from a simple craftsmanship of a copper smith into a foundry business. That's back in the 1930s. My dad, uh. Took over the business in the, uh, uh, late, uh, 1940s. Now I would say in 1957, he moved into the ministry of public works and where he was in charge of the foundry business for a while, he worked for only five years and he thought, well, might as well have a little bit of, uh, entrepreneurship. He had to finish his working hours by two o'clock and. He never took afternoon rest, he just took the extra mile in finding a copper pile and where he had to go and trade in his little old car, make a trip or two maybe just to earn an extra buck. And gradually he had his little yard, and I'm talking way before I was born. And right when, uh, I was born, I'm the elder of the eldest of the family. And the brothers, I had to really put a lot of the after office hours into his backyard working with the neighbors, putting some time and messing up my pants and hands and get back with a little. Coins that were to me a lot of treasure, you know, my peers never had those extra bucks when they've gone for shopping. I was always The boy with extra money, so it was exciting until When I graduated and I'm a civil and metallurgical engineer I had graduated from Texas A& M and my dad says well If you work for a year or two for engineering, that's about as long as I can spare you out. We need you in the business. So I barely got my feet into the engineering career, uh, got me one project. And then my dad says, well, we need you back in the business. So, uh, that really took the glitter out of my engineering away. And I had, uh, felt a little bit reluctant at the initial stages while being an engineer with double majors. Why to work in this crab metals? I mean, that's a lot of crab into it. That's the way I thought about it back then being, uh, thinking, wow, graduating from a very high, um, engineering university. And I thought engineering is. What's really would make my career, but thinking about it from a different perspective, it was the right decision. Join the family, took care of my dad's business from a domestic business into exploring that into a multinational business. And we became one of the largest exporters in the Middle East. Uh, doing about 25, 000 tons a month of non ferrous and close to 30, 000 tons of ferrous in a span of, I would say, 15 years from the time that I, uh, took over the business. And that is when I joined business full time. It was in 1985 and I, uh, set up a new business. As branching out of the main family business into Dubai, where I had a little yard and I slept in a port a cabin. And believe it or not, before I got married, that was my home, a port a cabin in the middle of the yard. And my dad, first time visited me, he was like, dropped his joy, he said, what? What made you sit into this little corner of the yard and you think you call it home? I said, dad, don't worry about it. When I get married, I'll move into a nice place, but let me get my hands dirty and I want to bring it very humbly from the ground up. So that was the right start. In fact. Yeah, you have to start on the ground level and, uh, to make it your home is, uh, even, even that much better because you will live in sleep the game. You got it. I spent the waste time and commuting and traffic and stuff. You know, I had a lot of passion into it and I wanted to prove to my dad, you know, you, uh, put a lot of investment in my education and schooling and it's time to pay back. I got the, uh, grip of the business to where I had developed it from a very small local sales business into a multinational. Uh, business exploring the market and adding value, the little money adds to it a lot of flavor as well. When you realize you're working hard and it's paying back, uh, it is something that gives you the motivation. On one hand and, uh, on the other hand, coming from the, uh, where we started the environmental engineering as well, part of the civil engineering. Uh, and we realized we had to take care of the environment. So I always, uh, thought the environment is not a by product of what we do. It's a basic foundation that we do have to take care of the environment and the surrounding as we grow within the business. So we, uh, label it with a sustainable. Uh, future and it is eventually become as a, uh, one of the prerequisites for you to, uh, really be able to practice your business. The environment became one of the regulatory that is essential. That you got to meet those requirements. If you didn't, you wouldn't be licensed. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you, you've been doing this for almost 40 years now. You must've had to make some really tough decisions. Um, you've gone through so many things. I mean, in the last few years, we talk about COVID, right? But I mean, in 40 years, you, you've experienced a lot. What are some of the like. Specific deals or transactions that really presented a, a unique obstacle that you had to get through and, and did you get key learnings for the rest of your career from those sort of, um, issues that you dealt with? Uh, well, I'll tell you what, uh, we, we did have some, uh, tough decisions to make and we've seen a lot of turbulences and, uh, uh, if, if something would come up to my mind, I think it was the financial crisis of 2008, which has written. Uh, a lot of boats, uh, around our seas and it has been really something that we have never experienced before. All of a sudden with market crash, uh, nobody's picking up their containers and honoring their contracts. Uh, I, for a while I thought, well, I mean, you can't be so demanding or so unrealistic and expect everybody to honor their contract, so why don't you, Salam, think of something that can be a little bit, uh, facelifting to the buyer at the same time, uh, helping him to honor the contracts to where we become More on the win win situation. So, uh, I realized it was difficult for me to take the losses and take the, uh, the bullet the same time. It was difficult to demand from all the buyers to honor the contracts, considering the situations out there. So I realized I had to be practical. Most of my reliable buyers, I knew that they had difficulties. I said, listen, I know it's a tough time and I would. Help you to help me. He said, how does that work? So long we are in a mess and we can't clear out your containers. Now we were shipping 25, 000 tons and a lot of it is copper and nonferrous. It was, you know, if you add the math, it would come out close to 1 billion worth of sales those days on an annual basis. So I proposed to my close buyers whom I would rely on. I said, listen, I would think of it that I would give you discount right now for you to pick up the metal at 70 percent value of the invoice. And he was like, really? Salam, that's a great treat. I would appreciate it. I said, listen, that's the good news, but the bad news is you have to make it up for me in the next one or two years at the latest. So now if I give you a discount, I'm going to have a side book that you will keep also a similar book on your side and say. The co, the complete losses that we would've had if we would give you the 30% discount would be so many millions of dollars. And I'm talking to different buyers, not only one buyer, of course, and you will make a side notebook that in every deal that we will continue to do afterwards, you will promise that you will add up some 20,$30 on each ton that you will be buying from me. Which will help you to digest the metals that you'll be clearing out of the ports right now. But I will get compensated somehow. In a parallel book in the next two years, and you will promise that you will do that. In fact, it was doable, because I knew what the market was. If I had to sell copper at an X amount of dollars, which was the market rate, I would invoice him. If it was copper, I added like 50 on top. If it was aluminum, I added 25 on top. And we kept noting down those. Compensations that he found it as a face lifting way to honor the contract. I would get compensated in a matter of a year or 2 depends on which contracts we were doing and how big the contracts were short term or spot or long term and it did work and we were just. You know, when we met afterwards, we were just remembering those days, how difficult time the decision was to take and how easy I made it on them to really keep the, um, contracts flowing and the relationship on top to be more sustainable. So, uh, it was a way that I had to, uh, and I found it very. A smart and unique courage to take a decision at that time, seeing that a lot of my peers and my competitors, I know they had to go and salvage their containers out of the fourth, picking up the bill of ladings, go look for another buyer where they had to sell it at the market rate, paying a lot of demerit. So I found eventually it was a smart decision because I took it at a brisk of a time that. We didn't have to pay the marriage. We didn't have to get the buyer to be burdened with the sharp drop of the market. So, uh. It was something to be, uh, remembered. Yeah, it's, it's something I'll never forget either. Just going through that time. I was still new to the trading team in 2008, you know, I think we took bigger knocks than, than 30%. You actually got your money back in the long run, which is. Incredible. And you didn't pay all the demurrage costs. I mean, during that time, it was a bloodbath. Everybody was up in arms and everybody was trying to speak to somebody else to find out, you know, what the best way is to do it. So it sounds like how early did you make that decision? I guess that's what's sticking in my head. Like, was it an early decision? Because it got harder later on because people were making crazy decisions and then everybody else thought, well, that's the normal. Well, uh, you know what, uh, uh, the sooner as you take the bullet. Yeah, is the sooner you recover I it took me about two weeks time. It was not something that I had to take it immediately because we thought contract is a contract. And then I said, Salam, this is all over the place. It's not the only one buyer. A lot of the buyers were also trying to reenact on the contract and the bigger there. Um, business volume was, the bigger the risk was, so I thought I had to compromise keeping a thread of a relationship between me and the buyer. So it wasn't easy decision, but it was almost, uh, two weeks time for me to realize the option B, which if I didn't take the option A, I would have given more discount to a new buyer. Because market was losing, it has lost up to 50 percent if not even a little bit more. And I remember very well, market was copper like 11, 000 and it went down to almost 4, 500 to 5, 000 on the LME. So it was not easy, but yes, the quicker. And the more courageous decision you take, the more the better outcome becomes, and the more trust you build on your buyer, so it become more resilient, and we cemented the relationship throughout this exercise. A lot of my competitors thought it was the right decision, which I never shared with them at the time because I thought it was not maybe the best decision. It was a personal decision that I took. But I've seen people going and picking up their containers from the ports and getting back there. Builds of ladings by DHL, and they had nothing to do except to either go and liquidate. To be honest, we did receive some bills of ladings from some of our suppliers that they had supplied to competitors. And they said, Salam, we had to take our well, we were given back our bills of ladings and said, we can't do anything about it. You either take it now or you may even lose the full value and those buildings came to me from suppliers who sold to my competitors and they said, if we were to give discounts, we would rather give to you. Because we don't want to be mistreated with people who had re enacted on their contract and we will consider it a fresh sale for you. And I said, you know what, if you do that, I will also promise you that you will get compensated in the near future by me trying to add up a little bit on your top line that will get you compensated. And it was paying off since I had given that treat for two years. So I. Had given a little room for my buyer to lift the metals and I got compensated in span of two years time. Those very limited bills of ratings. I got them from my suppliers who sold to competitors. I, if you're like told a business for another two years, where I promised them to compensate for them. And I was really splitting margins with them. I didn't lose because I didn't have to, but it was a treat for them. And I managed to really, um, club. With a lot of new suppliers that they thought, well, Sharif has made a salvage situation that others haven't. I was proud of that situation. Yeah. And you know, it's so easy to look back in the past now and people that will be listening will be, you know, maybe didn't go through it in 2008. And I mean, at the time I remember quite well that people were like, Oh, well it's got to go up again. It's going to go up in the next few weeks. It's got to go up tomorrow. It's hit its bottom. And you constantly worrying about. Do I now know go and negotiate something or what happens if it corrects and tomorrow it's up 2, 000 and that was what we were constantly dealing with. So it's quite interesting. That's why I asked you how long it took you because that early decision would have been by far the best decision anybody made because everybody was trying to see it out and wait for it to recover. Um, but then I look at COVID and I should have made some really stronger decisions early on. Not knowing it was going to last for as long as it did, specifically in New Zealand, how long we were locked down for. Um, it's a hard decision to make, right? Absolutely. I mean, uh, sometimes the best decisions that you take are not necessarily are when the, uh, it is an easy going. Okay. It's like, uh, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. Okay, it's a decision you gotta take with a calculated risk and it has to be so courageous that it's gotta be timely. If you don't take a timely decision. You miss the boat and you think, well, I should have done something and have taken a decision. I know sometimes it's difficult, but back into the 2008 is when we're doing a back to back business on spot business. And then at that time, maybe I was the first one in the Middle East who had done the full hedging mechanism for copper and, uh, The most volatile, uh, metals like copper, aluminum, and lead. And times when I had given discounts on my buyer's book, uh, that is something I didn't disclose to them, but I had bought something on the LME. Mm. Because I had sold at losses, right? Of course. And I said, what if the market bounced back so long, you will be going back and remorsing over it. What a stupid decision I would have made if I would looked at it into three months later and market bounced back from 4, 500 copper back into 7, 000. What would you think you've done? It would be a nail in the coffin. So I said, well, I would go and hedge my merits, bought, sold at loss and bought on the LME. So as the market went up, to be honest, LME has paid me off. I didn't tell those buyers who were compensating me for the next two years, because it was their liability and their duty to do that. But I did my homework on the other hand, that I bought on the LME, thinking that, well, if the LME had gone further down, I wouldn't be losing much, the risk would be pretty much calculated. Looking into the historic data and all that crap. Which didn't pay much off because at the time, uh, this has gone up to that level. Uh, those were more of a, if you like, unhistorical prices for copper and aluminum. Going back into the old days when copper maximum has hit 3, 000. These numbers were unprecedented. But I said, on the going down, there'll be a limited risk. But if the going higher side, if I had missed the boat, I would really not forgive myself. So having bought on the LME at that time in a physical hedge position, it had really compensated quite a bit. You know how, um, constantly commodity traders or metal recyclers, you're always hoping to sell at the peak. Everybody's like, I want to buy at the lowest and sell on the peak. In 2008, we all sold on the peak. But we didn't get paid. It's like, it doesn't matter how well you read the market. Sometimes if we sell at the highest, it's not actually the best thing for you. Because as soon as the market comes off, you've got issues on the other side. I hadn't actually thought about that before until right now. Well, uh, personally, I have never thought of selling at the peak and buying at the bottom because I'm not a markets maker. Okay. I know that I'm. A recycler with a day to day trading. Um, and I know that for me to cope with the market ups and downs, I have to sell low, sell high, as long as I mark up my little margin out there and I'm content about what I'm making and it goes with, within my budget. That keeps me liquid. I'm not an opportunist trader, I'm a market player where I am there in good times and in bad times. And that's what kept me on top of the other traditional traders or merchants who thought, you know what, what the heck, I sit on the metal for another six months, nothing will go wrong. Market will go up. I still have the value of my metals. Okay. But time is of the essence. I work on my margins and my turnover. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't hit the billion dollars sale by the end of the year. And I wanted to do that volume to keep me on top of the market. And also, uh, you know what I would sell copper in the same day at three, four different values. Morning, I would sell nine o'clock on copper batch, which could be a hundred tons. I could sell around noontime another, uh, batch of a hundred tons, which could be either a hundred or 200 higher or even 80 lower. I didn't care. It's a back to back and I'm keeping my margins squeezed in. Keep it going, baby. That's the name of the game. Yeah. Keep turning. And that's why you probably sleep so well at night. Absolutely. I never had to take sleeping pills. I never worried about markets going up or down. My exposure is covered. So it's just another day. Dr Salam, tell me, um, we speaking about making hard decisions, but a lot of people, you know, my favorite with collaboration. A lot of people work together when you have to make some of these decisions. How have you collaborated with people over time? Do you reach out to people in associations? Do you have certain friends in the industry? collaborating? Well, I'll give you some of what I've done over the past 20 years, and it's not a secret because all my competitors came to know about it five years later. I had, uh, different branches in different parts of the Middle East, and I thought that's not very smart, Salam. You can't be available with your physical operation. And with your unique management all over the place, it's not a franchise business. Okay, so I had developed the rapport and the relationship with a lot of my suppliers that I visited their homes, I dined with their family, I invited them to my home, they dined with my family, the relationship became more solid, I visited them almost four Uh, times a year, if they were in Saudi or in different parts of the world, because my headquarters is in Dubai and I, um, they didn't want to replicate my setup in different places. So I thought I would work with them in what I call a backward integration. They were selling to the market to some of my competitors, and they were losing a lot of opportunities by selling to my competitors because everybody wanted to make margins. Me sitting in Dubai and not physically having the cost of operations in the Saudi or in different parts of the Middle East. I set up this synergy by financing them on a weekly basis that had related to some of the contracts that were specific. um, well, to go a little bit back into history. They were supplying. medals to my yards in Dubai through trailers across the borders, but after the Gulf War for a lot of, uh, transboundary, uh, reg regulatories and security issues, post Gulf War, the trailers, transportations were banned. So, visiting them Inviting them into my facilities, sharing the know how of the packaging with them and the quality control, giving them some of my equipments on their size, fit of the operations, me giving the small machines out to them. Uh, nominal cost, me buying the bigger machines, which is more, if you like, automatic, which could cope with a bulk of the quantities, uh, uh, productions. They were happy that I gave them equipments to, lift their business up from, uh, local suppliers into real packers, where the press machines, the alligator shears, all the caper strippers, which they were to them dream. To get one of those equipments, they wouldn't afford it. They couldn't afford it. So me giving them that out. And I said, don't worry about the CapEx. You pay me through the tonnage of your operations. We've put a 50 on top of each ton that you supply to pay back for the equipment. They didn't feel the burden of having to really finance a lot of CapEx. I disposed of my old machines, which were smaller to my capacity, so we've grown together. They've grown from ground up to a limited size, which I have outpaced it in multiples of times. I renewed my equipments with a bigger capacity. I've grown the volume together, so it was a great synergy. I had financed them on a weekly basis. I remember one of the three major suppliers, they were on the average getting a million dollars weekly from my finance, but I made sure I would get the metals back by the end of the week, which closes the book of a million dollars. And if they didn't, I wouldn't refinance until. That first, uh, batch was already, supplied out with certain metals. They felt they were part of the race. They wouldn't imagine that they could, in a span of Uh, a year or two working with Sharif that they could really, work on the triple the volume of what they used to do by the finances and the equipments. So, we had grown together and It's one of the tactics that I have taken on a calculated risk by KYC. And until now, my sons are working with their sons as second generations, and we meet with as bosses and we think, remember when we, in the 80s, we used to do this and now our sons are enjoying the business. We've got to be on top of it just to make sure they follow the trade practices and simply, you know, follow the legacy and we enjoy the relationship as it goes further. It's really a life journey. That I can always say I'm proud of what is being developed and we, we had worked together. On a win win situation. That's, I mean, that's a great example of collaboration. I mean, if you can make collaboration benefit you with your customers, that's, I mean, that's incredible. So, and what a win win. I mean, you've got to get rid of your own equipment that you had no need for anyway, and it brought you a huge amount of supply and goodwill from the supplier. So that, that's awesome. If you could give any of our listeners, um, a couple Tips and tricks on how to optimize your trading strategy. You know, what would those be? Well, I would say this never think of one winning deal. That could be a shortcut always think how can I buy next year from the same supplier with a bigger volume and Get the t thing done on a smaller volume As you grow together, so never bite a big chunk where you end up in getting an expensive experience with your supplier or on a slow and steady basis, try to get the operational synergy together because it's not only the commercial. You may have a very successful commercial deal, but if the logistics and the back office paperwork is not in tandem. You end up in getting, uh, tangled with a lot of, operational issues. So I had brought my suppliers to my head office and they worked with my team. We always made groups and I was on top of it to see that any problem gets immediately sorted out. We don't leave anything pending. We meet around my desk where I have, My office very practical connected or extended desk near to my big table where it fits five chairs not to go to the conference room and just to make it so formal right there and then bring the problem out here. Let's nail it as we speak. If any problem, call the other side of the supplier, tackle it out. Move it and go to the next problem. I would love to hear some problems that they would not be able to sort out in the office because I believe I'm a good troubleshooter and I would give, out of that example, a little training to my guys and make what we call the C. A. P. A. Corrective action. We do it on the spot and for me not to be involved on daily basis of the similar problems. I would shut down what I call a preventive action that they will be able to take so that they will take it as a model for them to apply for the next years and don't have to bother me with the similar problems. So it's more of a troubleshooting and training at the same time. So, having worked with those suppliers over the years with dining and visiting more frequent, and they're realizing. The pleasure and passion of their growth, without any tough conditions that will jeopardize their business sustainability. On the other hand, it was always lifting their business up from one level into another level. And as the years have gone by, we've always felt proud. The relationship is more sustainable. They add up to my bottom line and I add up to theirs as well. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, Dr. Salam, who are you looking out in the industry? Who are you looking at? Who, who's pushing the boundaries? Who, who are you always keeping an eye on? Well, to be honest, the first one I looked up to was my dad. He was the one who taught me the business and the direction of the trade in the sense that you got to be always honest with your buyers or suppliers. You got to be transparent. And there's always a shortcut, which is from a starting to an end, there is a straight line. Don't go around the bushes and try to make up stories. You got a problem, sit and sort it out. Make sure it's timely handled and nobody's hurt. So I would say my dad was the role model. He taught me the business. Uh, up to the years when I lost him in 2014, I've realized I've lost a mentor, I've lost a father, I've lost, how shall I say, the whole world was to me, around circling about my dad because he's always supported every decision that I've made, and times when I had, uh, Gray areas about the business. When I was tempted to do something that would have gotten me a little bit of extra buck, but wasn't really on the main ethics of the business models. He said, no, Salaam, never take a shortcut. It doesn't pay off. If you consider a winning situation without considering the other party on the other side, he is winning over similar magnitude or he's. Uh, evolving along with you. So, uh, that is my role model. I've had a few of the industry people that I would always, uh, think of them quite highly. to be honest, when I joined VIR, it was in the year, 1988. Two years right after I established the, company in Dubai. I feel like flattered by being asked by non fetish division president of the BIR, Larry Sachs. May God bless his soul now. Uh, I used to always call him Uncle Larry. Okay. Uh, he took me as a, a board member of, for the non fetish, division of the BIR. And I was, I worked my way up to a vice president of the non fetish division. Under his presidency, and then when he left that division, uh, to somebody else, I had the option to take the, Ambassador's Committee chairmanship. And I was at that time, barely 39 years old. I thought, wow, to be a chairman for, uh, the Ambassador's Committee, it was a great deal, so I wanted to really step up and to. That committee, it gave me the whole world connections. And so yes, Larry Sachs was a main driver to, uh, boost my morale. He always spoke highly about me and I had a lot of high regards for his, uh, close, uh, relationship. He was also making a broadcast, uh, Related to scrap, um, magazine in the US and he said, Salam, I'm not the writing type who would like to send a lot of emails. I would call you once a week on a broadcast and have a q and a with you one-on-one and it would last for almost 30 minutes. It was very enjoyable and it was really published on the scrap, uh, magazine. And I still think of him. In high regards and he would be the second one that I would think highly of and I have a lot of others and I will not really name a list of it right now. I enjoy a very good relationship with a lot of people from Israel from B. I. R. and from ward associations. But yeah, after my dad, I would say Larry Sachs was the one who has been in my, uh, initial, uh, stages of the BIR, which gave me the boost and confidence. Perfect. Yeah, they sound fantastic. Um, I used to call him uncle. He used to call me nephew. Okay. So we have no relationship, but it's the love and affection which got us so close together. That's what this industry is all about. Um, quickly before we go, let's get to know you a little bit better. Have you got a favorite TV series or movie? Oh, well, uh, not a a lot of tv uh, uh, fan, but when I do tune into the tv, I like the, the episode suits. Yeah. Awesome. Suits is something that, I would, like to, uh, watch my family think it's boring. Okay. Too much business and the tires. Okay. I'm, I'm a very, uh. Uh, a well dressed guy when I go to office, not because I love putting a tie in a nice suit. So suits just suited me nice with their attires apart from the, a lot of the threats of the trade of the lawyers and how companies really, so that suits is would be the one that I would name. Yes. Yeah. I'm a big fan. Um, favorite place to go and visit? Oh, I would say Greece. I had my honeymoon in Greece It has a lot of good memories. I love the culture and the food and the ambience there. Amazing. Um, do you read any books, a lot of books? What's your favorite book? Well, books in the sense that I now with the new gadgets, you have your phone, which has all the e books that's available. You could read and listen to a book in less than 15 minutes. To be honest, when I go to the gym, I put my headsets on and I would be having three books. Uh, either it's business related or social or dietary, whatever you call it. But I used to have a very typical book that I used to carry with me as I traveled. Those days it was trading up. Treading Up is about a story where somebody walked his way to the Wall Street, uh, market and it is, it, it's got to do with hedging and not a very interesting book to a lot of people, but I, I found it related to my business and, uh, I enjoyed it because I found it is of relevance to what I do. Yeah, but nowadays with a 15 minutes book, you can listen and read together. You know what? They made it so easy. For you to be a reader. And if you're not a reader, you're not a learner. So, you know, you, you read three books, you've learned a lot of, uh, uh, uh, people's, uh, life experiences out of it. And it, it is really, uh, of interest. And it is so easy, you know, as you're working out, you're biking, put the book on your headset and, you know, you've covered reading. Have you got a favorite quote? Um, well, uh, I got two quotes. Maybe one is related to business and one is not. Uh, one is that I would always apply to my business as well. Uh, don't bite more, more than what you can chew. Right. Is one. Yeah. And that had to do a lot with business over trading and working, trading within your boundaries. It fits just right there, and it is of help. The other one is maybe not related to business, but I would say, and I share the code that I like is if, if God didn't make it, don't take it. And that's related to a lot of food. A lot of people eat junk food. Okay, and processed food, and I tell my family, if God didn't make it, don't take it. Try to go with the natural food. Go for a nice, you know, beef steak, which is right, tenderloin cut, is better than a ton of burgers that could be full with crab and you don't know what is gone in there. So these two quotes, I would say, I found them one of the favorites. And, uh, I would say that, uh, learning through the ages, I would say, I'm proudly saying that I have been involved for close to 40 years. years of business with hands on, and I would add another 60 years of my dad's legacy and experience. So maybe I can call myself one of those dinosaurs who can fit into a hundred years of experience. Cumulative experience. And today I would fit for the Century Club of the Izri. Because I've already passed, uh, I'm 62, as we speak, I just had March the 6th birthday recently, okay, and I would, uh, say that with the, uh, 62 years of age and 38 plus years of business, I would qualify definitely for that Century Club of the United States, which has been topped up not only by Bye. A trading experience and legacy that I am Having the intake of it and passing on to the next generation. My three sons have taken over the business And by the way, my grandson whose name is salam jr. The third Goes to the yard. He's nine years old now and he goes and gets his pocket money right out of the backyard operations and it's really a legacy that I feel proud of maybe this is why The Bureau of Middle East Recycling has, after I have founded and being a president for 13 years, or 10 years plus 3 years of honorary chairman, now, uh, gave me the position of the advisory council chairman and the chairman for the advocacy committee. Uh, uh, it's nice to learn and pass the knowledge down the line. And it's part of learning and. Keep on learning and passing on the knowledge. This is how it circulates and it evolves along the line. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. And you do so much for the industry. So, um, we have to go so, but firstly, thank you. I just want to say thank you so much. Um, this was very, very informative. Always love chatting to you. Looking forward to seeing you again soon. Um, thanks for being on the show. Well, still, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you and thinking out of the box. It's something we don't have the opportunity to speak about every time, but feel free to reach out. I'll be happy to share some time with you. Thanks, Dr. Salam. Keep up. God bless you.
