Born Scrappy
The go-to podcast for scrap metal exporters and traders
Born Scrappy
S2E4: Tips from the trenches with scrap sensation Amy Bird of Countrywide Metals
In today's episode, I chat to Amy Bird. Amy is the CEO at Countrywide metals and has been in the scrap game for all her life.
She’s also the founder of “Women in scrap”. This woman was Born Scrappy!!
In todays episode we talk about:
- Why customer experience is everything.
- Driving everybody mad with data.
- The Importance Of relationships.
- Getting back up again.
- And so much more!
WHO IS STU KAGAN ANYWAYS?
25 years in the metal recycling game and still learning and growing...
I learnt from the best and worked my way up from yard labourer to Executive Director of Trading and Operations for the largest metal recycler in sub-Saharan Africa. Responsible for 4,500 employees, 85 sites, and the overall profitability of a multi-billion dollar operation.
I brought my breadth and depth of knowledge to bear and co-founded the fastest growing, most-loved, and most awarded metal recycling company in New Zealand. No small feat in a country where people are outnumbered 4:1 by sheep (spoiler alert: sheep don’t produce much metal waste).
I thought it was time that tech worked for our industry, so I took all of my experience as an operator and trader and leveraged that to build THE killer scrap app, Buddy. That’s right - built for scrappies, by scrappies.
Father of two crazy-awesome boys. Husband to Lisa. Under 9 rugby coach. YPO member. Lifelong learner. Mentee. Mentor. Chief dog walker. Committed Stoic. Undefeated dance-off champion.
COME SAY HI ON LINKEDIN
Hi, I'm Stu Kagan and welcome to Born Scrappy, the podcast for scrap metal exporters and traders. Join me in conversation with some of the most experienced traders and operators that have helped shape this incredible industry. In today's episode, I chat to Amy Bird. Amy is the CEO at Countrywide Metals and has been in the scrap game all her life. She's also the founder of Women in Scrap. This woman was born scrappy. In today's episode, we talk about driving everybody mad with data, getting back up again, why customer experience is everything, the importance of relationships, and so much more. This could be one of my favorite episodes for sure. So let's get into it with Amy. But first, intro. Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Hey, it's so good to have you here. And we've been chatting about it for a while. So the last few days, a couple of things got in the way, but we made it happen. Yeah, exactly. We've got some time difference and stuff going on, haven't we? So just like fitting that it is, it's so good to be able to do it. So I'm pleased to be here. Ah, super, super excited. Um, Amy, we've seen you pretty prevalent lately on social media, which is really exciting. We're going to delve into all of that. Um, hear a lot about the stuff that you're working on. Um, really excited. And. I just wanna start with one question, and you don't know this is coming, but on social media I see it says you're a weightlifter. Does that mean you pick the weights up in the scrap yard or do you actually do weightlifting in the gym? Well, actually, yeah, I weightlift in the gym, but you know, some really cracking stuff comes in the scrap. Yeah. So in terms of reuse, you can pull some stuff out, but now I started lifting. I had a bit of a tricky time, um, when I started one of my businesses and I needed to channel, you know, when things go hard. You kind of have three options. You go off the rails. You drink, you do things you shouldn't, or you hit the gym. So for me, I hit the gym. So I found this powerhouse woman online and she does these like programs. So I started lifting and it was light at first and I really got into it. Now I'm like, I'm Romanian deadlifted and I'm trying to get to my 120 kg. And you know, the really cool thing about it is my daughter's doing it as well. I mean, she's strong. She's 20 now and she's strong. So. It kind of, you know, I love it, but it broke that pattern of, I'm going to sit on the sofa and eat rubbish and drink wine because my brain can't deal with what's going on. So yeah, no, I left, I love it. Uh, look, you're talking to the converted, um, I've been lifting all my life. Um, all, all my life I played rugby and I had to get really bigger, always bigger and stronger and lifted. Then I did CrossFit competitively. So kind of been lifting all my life. So. Love it. Love it. But I wanted to start with it. However, let's go through your journey so far. So tell us a little bit about how Amy at a young age got stuck into the yards and and what it's been like since then. Okay, so we are a family from the East End in London, which is a bit of a, was actually now it's very posh, but it was quite a rough area. Um, and dad had a yard. We lived in a little house on the back of a fish and chip shop. And basically my brother and sister went into the business. They're a bit older than me. Dad had furnaces, aluminum, um, furnaces in the middle of London, like on the River Thames. Um, and Jimmy and Dad, my brother and my dad used to kind of, um, feed the furnaces by hand. You know, it was all very manual. From a young age, like as early as I can remember, um, mum would have me in the Weybridge office, bagging up the pennies, like doing the cashing up for the day. And I'm going to be like, yeah. I'm counting these pennies up. Um, so that happened as I got older, dad did quite well. We moved out to the countryside. I get sent off to a posh school. I'm not working in scrap. Absolutely not. I'm going to go and play with horses. I'm going show jumping. I'm giving it all that. Then I, um, did a bit of modeling around the world. So I still got the travel bug, love meeting people, doing all of that. But you know what kept drawing me back in dad was like, you're not gonna be doing that forever. Get on the way bridge. So I would kind of, I'd land from LA, and by three hours later jet lagged out of my mind I'd be on the way bridge, you know, so it was very much. Family focus, get your backside to work. And I loved it. I loved the people part, the interaction. I love that I'm on this way bridge and I'm kind of behind this screen and I'm, I'm telling people what they're going to get for their scrap. You know, you're not going to tell me what you're doing. I'm going to, I'm going to tell you. Um, so that happens and the business went on and it went on, we stopped smelting, we became more of a, we were doing a lot of coppers, containers, export, um, lived through the 2008 debacle, um, and then it went on from there, my husband actually used to buy scrap from my dad. You don't go out with another scrap man. Like if you're a woman in scrap back in the eighties, nineties, you are not going out from anyone with that business. Um, so my dad barred me from dating. Anyone barred me from going to any functions, like absolute no, no. And then we went to a BMRA dinner. I think I was 25 when I was allowed to go. And that was it. The sparks flew. I met Steve and then we decided we were going to make our own, um, yard in Birmingham and then it dreams come true. And is that now Countrywide Metals? So Countrywide Metals is now, um, I won't bother going into it. I had a company called One Stop Recycling, which I sold in 19. So then we started again for a third time. And actually, you know what, when this industry kicks you down to get back up and do it again. That's everything. Now you've got all your knowledge, all your mistakes, everything. So now the business we're running, I'm so proud of it. Like my team's back together and I'm, I'm just loving it. You know, we haven't even really delved into this yet, but we're kicking off in some really important stuff. So one thing about this industry is if you've done the hard yards. It doesn't matter if you get kicked off from the top because you can start again. The problem is if you're a corporate and you join up at the top and for whatever reason you fall from grace, very difficult to start a scrap metal company. But if you've been there and done that, it's like, it's exactly where you are. I've been there like, and it's an amazing feeling. I completely concur. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think Stuart, you know, um, our network, if you've done things right and you're solid and you've had people's backs and you've done the right thing for your whole career, this competition is fierce in what we do. You know, we all want the last kilo, but when things really are wrong and you really are right, there's this tribe that comes together in our industry and goes. I've got your back. Let's go again. I've got your back. I support you. And I think that's why I've become a bit more active on LinkedIn because I've suddenly gone, wow, what an amazing community of people we have here. We're not all out to get each other all the time. We've got each other's backs. Let's make something incredible. Yeah, you know, our industry is hyperlocal, so you're really only competing with the person in your town. Um, and, and everybody else is like minded. We're all doing the same thing. So the more we can communicate, that's where LinkedIn has been incredible, right? Because you can communicate with all these different people who are going through very similar things to you. And, and as you say, the network, it's crazy how people come out the woodwork and you start to, when you think you're having a hard time and you put it on social media, you may. You realize if it was so many other people have had the similar thing happened to them and they're all okay. Right. In fact, most have turned it around to be a positive and that's, you know, that that's where the fun stuff starts, but let's kick into understand a little bit more about you. So tell me about a day in the life of Amy. What are you, are you an early riser? Are you weightlifting in the mornings and the afternoons? How do you get your day started? Yeah. So now that, so Steven and I have got five children between us. I say children, they're all older now. So now that that bit's done, kind of, um, I'm an early riser. So I like to hit the gym in the morning. That's my bit of me time. And you know, I try not to let the phone creep into that. I really try hard to go and have that hour. Where I'm going to go and growl at people and do my thing and lift my weight and then hit the shower straight to work, um, from the gym. And I am hands on you ask any of my guys, like I am out in the yard. I'm checking down the bottom. I'm making sure my aluminum looks good. I'm making sure everyone knows what containers are going out that day. Not because they're not, I've got great ops guys, I've got really good people, but I find it's an extra 20 percent and I've trialed it. If I set back completely and I let everybody go and do their thing. And I read these management books that tell me I shouldn't be doing this. And you know, all these Instagrammers, you should be sitting on the beach. You've not got a great business. If you're not doing that, I don't believe it. I don't care for it. And I love my job. So I get in there. Check everyone's okay, check cash flow, check stock levels, check containers going out, check bookings, you know, the whole shebang. And then I'm happy. Then I'm happy, and then I can go actually. Where are we trying to get to? Where are we on target for this month? Do my guys know what my target is? Because sometimes as the head of the business, you know what's going on, you know where you're trying to get to, but if you don't communicate that to everybody, you're going to miss it. You're going to absolutely miss it. So I spend a bit of time on that. And then just developing, um, can we do it better? If I reduce my attachments in my aluminium, am I going to get a better price? Is it going to cost me more to get those attachments lower? So when I say I'm all over it, I'm all over it, you know, but enjoy it. That's the thing. I don't feel like I'm working. I love it. It is so refreshing to speak to an operator and to hear just how you love to get stuck in the enjoyment of it all. It doesn't feel like work. I mean, these are the kinds of things that. You know, we post about on LinkedIn and, and probably people from outside the industry think we're crazy. Like, yeah, sure. It doesn't feel like, well, it doesn't like you go in there, you're doing what you enjoy, if you're lucky enough to have a team around you that you really enjoy seeing every day and they enjoy being a part of what you're building. No, how much better is that? I haven't, I've never quantified that 20%. So I really like that. You have looked at it. Um, I'm a massive, massive believer in. Getting into the yard. In fact, just today, I posted about how you can affect your margin. And the best way to affect your margin is getting into the yard yourself. You cannot do it from the office, whether it's your grading, you're buying on your front scale, you're upgrading your, um, if you're buying against the sale, then, um, all those things you can only do, you need to know your inventory, you need to do them. Outside in the yard, be sitting in your office, you just cannot get that incremental extra margin. So I love speaking to an owner operator. It's just amazing because I've been there. I love it. Um, yeah, yeah. I feel the same as you. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned inventory. I mean, we quit stock control in the UK. So my weekend. Saturday I was in my yard till half past four in the afternoon because I wanted every single thing weighed in that yard now on the Thursday they were meant to get most stuff out and a load of lorries didn't turn up so I'm like well I'm sorry lads it's got to be weighed so we're like 750 tonne later I'm making the brews for everybody I'm taking the tea out the yard because we're gonna get it spot on because that stock control, inventory as you call it, Everything as far as I'm concerned, everything, everything, you've got to be on that and, and it kind of, your team sees that your people see that you're on top of things and you know, what's going on. It makes them more passionate. They're more interested. They're also more careful with what they do because they know you're looking over their shoulder, even though that's not what your book told you to do. Right. As a manager, it's not about micromanaging. Right. But the fact that they know that you are there and they're about just makes them work that little bit harder, make sure that they are keeping stock of everything, making sure that everything is accounted for and put in the right place and nice. And he saw a post the other day. It's very clever. Um, you can tell what your team think of your company. By the way, they leave your yard every night. And I have a picture of this beautifully stacked yard with the cars that were ready for tomorrow to go through the shredder, whatever it was to be processed. Everything was neatly in its pack for the next shift. Everything was neatly in its place for the next shift. And it was just like. That is so true. And I've never thought about that. How many people just down the tools and they're out of there, right? If you've got a group that go, hold on, who's taking over the next shift? Or I want to be, I want to come in tomorrow and enjoy what I do and make sure everything's ready and make sure when, you know, the managers are looking, they can see this place looks good. The customers come in, have a great experience. That's when you've got a real good culture. Well, yeah. And you've got to, so Scalesman, for example, I don't know what you guys call them, but my small scale is where all the white vans come in and wear their stuff off. I know they're going to be queuing at 7am the following morning. If I had a scalesman that didn't take pride in emptying his scales and sweeping his area and being ready for that, it would be chaos in our place the next day. The minute they don't do that, everything, it's dominoes, isn't it? You know, the minute one thing isn't done, it upsets everything else. The day gets delayed. Everybody stays later. I'm going crazy because I don't want people to have to wait too long to weigh their stuff in. One thing clear your area before you go home makes your next day so much easier. Absolutely. Amy, talk me through a, an experience you've had on the trading side of your business that had an effect on you that made you set up some sort of process or change the way that you traded after that. Okay, so one of the things that we came into as we came back into this new business is more factory contracts, which are quite interesting, but they roll, you know, this factory job, once you've got it, that's going to roll month in month out. It does not care if there are no containers, it doesn't care what the market is doing. It's coming. Um, and I think when I first went into that in a smaller way, I kind of didn't appreciate that enough. You know, I always, I'm back to back on my trading. I trade all the way up. I trade all the way down. I don't believe in holding. Um, but sometimes you have no choice. Like this was one where I should have locked in my sale or at least 50 percent of my sale volume, but I was being greedy. And I didn't. And I think at one point I might have had 2, 000 tonne of material sitting there that had to be paid for, you know, it was part of the contract, they're gonna be paid, there is no, Oh mate, can you do me a favour? I can't ship this this week. So I, you know, that's not happening. Um, so I think that happened. I had a couple of sleepless nights. You know, luckily I managed to get it sold. It wasn't too long. And I think at the time, what had happened was I could sell it, but the freight rates went through the roof, absolutely through the roof. And I hadn't legislated for that. I hadn't locked anything in. So it came back. So now I back to back these contracts at least 50 percent of the volume. It's difficult with some of the contracts because if the production line stops, then you're not going to get the material you were expecting. So actually, it's very difficult to lock in the amount of tonnage coming through the yard. But I sleep better knowing that 50 percent of it is locked. See, I don't hedge, you know, I actually, hands up. I don't know how to hedge. I have never done that. I've always moved physical product. It's something I'm working on, obviously, and evolving learning. Oh, did we ever stop learning in this job? It's just constant. Um, but anyway, that was the thing. I did look at the mountain one day and go, Oh, you messed up here, buddy. That would be the one. So a few things. One is, so you pre sell What you're going to buy from industry where you know that you have bins placed or whatever you're servicing them that material is going to flow You know, there's 50 worst case coming in What about the rest of the material the stuff that's being delivered the door trade and your non ferrous are you? Selling that before you buy Yeah, so a lot of it now is sold before we buy, but again, it's, we are very door trade heavy. Um, I've got two yards, one in Birmingham and one, both fairly door trade heavy. Um, I change my price matrix on a daily basis. So one of my morning jobs is that we have a matrix, we enter the market for the day, it automatically up changes the bridge prices, the scales prices. So I've got a constant moving average. So within that constant moving average is a percentage lock of how much I want to make out of it covering costs and my profit. So I have sales on my main commodities all the time. I know roughly what's coming in on a monthly basis through my businesses. That doesn't change very much on the door unless I decide to do a big push on something. So I lock in those sails. If a contract comes along, say a demolition contract, all of a sudden there's going to be a load of heavy copper coming through, then I might do that as an individual trade. Um, but generally speaking, I've got rolling sales on all the time. I do a lot of work off my averages because it's the only way we can do it. You know, yesterday I may have had a hundred tonne in, today I might get two, you know, if the weather is good. And people decide to have a clean out at the weekend. You look out the window in the Weybridge and you go, what's going on? You're paying too much. What's going on? But it's not, it's just purely, I mean, we just had this, they decided the weekend was dry. So everybody cleared their garages out. I mean, it really is the focus. From what is, you know, Mrs. Jones doing in her garage, to what are the automotive manufacturers doing, your brain sometimes has got to be in many, many different directions, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah, completely. And so when you now are selling this material, okay, so you sell, some of it you sell beforehand, depending on what sort of parcels are coming in at the time, you average that out. When you're selling, how are you deciding who to sell to? Is it, is it purely cash flow? Is it who's handling the freight? Is it, um, you know, whoever pays the highest price? Is it who they have a relationship with? How do you, how do you do that? Yeah, so it's increasingly becoming about relationships. I don't know what it's like for yourself, but there are so many people wanting this material at the moment, you know, in terms of finding customers. Finding the best customers is one thing, finding customers is something completely different, very, very different. I want to work with people I like now. I've been in the job a long time. I don't need to work with people that are going to hassle me, going to make my life harder, drive me, drive me, drive me. I'm not doing that. Um, so it's personality. Firstly, actually for me, the money's important. I'd be a fool to sit here and go, Oh, if I like you and you've got a good smile, I'm going to sell my material. No, obviously not. You know, so you can't buy anything. If you sell for a bad price, that's my answer. It's like, you might've offered me a bad price. You're a great person, but if I take that price, I won't be able to buy against everybody else. So unfortunately you're a nice guy, but we're both in business. Yeah, exactly. And that's the one. But at that point, I want someone to go hands up. You're right. I don't want someone to keep battering me and going, yeah, but come on, come on. So, um, and payment, you know, what we do is same day payment for most people, a lot of the trade coming through. I'm not getting any 14, 30 end of month payment terms, you know, um, so payment is really important. Plus the security of payment, you know, I was over visiting some customers out in India and they were asking me to open different payment options to make their life easier. Well, actually, you know, make my life easier. Absolutely. You want my product? Make my life easier. I was actually a little bit like, did that just happen? I've come over here to strike up a relationship and develop it. And you've come up with all these things that are going to make your life easier so that I sell you my product. That's a bit nuts. Sounds about right. So anyway, what I would love is best price payment upfront, reliable market. You're always in the market, unicorn sounds amazing, but we have to have a spread and you know, if I know there's platform, your platform and everything that's, that's being worked on, if we can get together a great group of people with integrity and understanding, and we can put that in one place, That would, that'd be everything, wouldn't it? That would be like a trusted ecosystem, like a trusted ecosystem. I am kind of working on that exactly at the moment, but just, uh, we'll get to that another time. Um, let's then swap it over slightly and let's talk about buying. And I bet you, you love the side of the business. Like this was one of my favorite kind of the strategy, how to get it in the door. Right. And this. Somebody made a post the other day. It was about what do you think it was a poll. It was, what do you think, um, brings the material in the door? Is it location? Is it marketing? Is it price? And for me, it was everything. It was like, it's, it's the combination, right? Including customer experience. How does the customer feel when they're in that job? So what are the things you, you touched on customer experience earlier, and I heard it and I didn't miss it. You said, I want the customers to be served quickly. There mustn't be queues. Now that sounds like out of my textbook, I'd be in the yard all day talking about queues. How do we make these queues shorter? Right. And it's a good problem to have, right? When you started your business, you were hoping you were going to have queues. Yeah. So when you have them, it's like, how do we make them shorter? How do we get rid of these Talk to me, tell me what your focus is and how do you get the metal in the door? Yeah, so we, um, we're competitive. Number one, you know, these guys are working hard. They're out at silly o'clock in the morning, filling up their vans. You know, the guys in the factory are working these shifts. So a bit like my customer experience with me, I want my suppliers to feel like I'm taking the pain away. So number one, it's got to be personal. As far as I'm concerned, I still now with my husband, we will walk out in our yard and from everyone from from the woman weighing in a few kilos on my scale with a couple of brass taps all the way up to the guys delivering lorry loads. We will talk to everyone. We will make the time periodically to get out there. And you know, that creates comfort. The owners are there. They're on the side. They're looking after us, you know, so that comfort is something that people crave. They don't even know they're craving it, but, but they do. And secondly is respect. Nobody is better than anyone else. And my staff have that drilled into them. I don't care what you may or may not think about any individual person in this yard. We are all the same and they're our bread and butter. They're bringing that stuff in that ultimately is going to pay your wages. So let's have some respect. And then the first thing, we're not there to rip people off. We're there to be a constant place where they can come with their metal, weigh in and know they will be treated fairly. We move the market daily and they like that. You know, back in the day, I love this. So teletext, there was only the screen in the UK that was called teletext. And it would, it would list the London metal exchange in these weird like pixelated screen. And then one day it all went online and someone came to the window and dad gave them a price. And they turned around to dad and went, well, that's not what the metal exchange is paying today. Dad was like, what are you talking about? Who are you sort of thing, you know? And the guy turns around and goes, Oh no, I've been online this morning and it's updated. And the copper moved 200 last night and you haven't moved that much. You're ripping us off. Yeah. Dad was like, what the heck is happening? I actually think at the time dad went, I don't know. Who you think you are. Get out. Go on don't help me out to run my business. You know? And, and that happened. But because it's so open now we have to be up to date and we have to be a little bit transparent.'cause they know, they know absolutely to the kilo what their metal should come to. These guys are professional at it, you know? They really, really are. So I think, yeah, the comfort blanket, transparency and respect. Get that right. And, and treat them like it's their business. It is their business. So my lorries don't want to be held up when they're delivering somewhere. So these little vans don't want to be held up because it stops them getting more, which stops me getting more, which delays everything. So that's, that's what I would say before we launched our company in New Zealand, because we were originally from South Africa. When we moved here, we started a scrap company. Um, my wife did market research and, um, her and somebody else took scrap to a whole lot of other dealers and basically documented the process and how it made them feel. Right. And the, the almost, I'd say 90%, if not every single one of them, it was some really big, intimidating guy. Standing there when you drove in with no way finding. So you didn't know where to go. And he shouted at you and told you to offload something down there. Um, and you, it was a woman didn't know how she was going to offload this fridge or whatever it was. And he, they would just walk over in a bad mood and kind of throw something off your truck or your vehicle. Right. Um, and it was, it was the same everywhere she went. So when we designed our customer experience, it was all about making our customers feel special. So it was, it was like, one of the big things for us was make it like, why can't it be like a McDonald's? Why is it that when somebody drives in, they don't know exactly where to go? Why isn't this signage that shows you where to go, where to stop? Somebody pops up at your door and goes, hello, sir. Hello, ma'am. How can I help you? I hope you're having a lovely day. Like, why can't our industry be like that? And when you are like that, you will take market share Before you know what to do with it. And that's when you have the cues that we just spoke about. And that's when that's your problem. And that's a good problem to have. Yeah, completely agree. We want certainty. Everybody in life wants certainty. You want to pull into that yard and know you're going to be looked after. You know where to go. In fact, when we opened the new site. My son actually did a post about exactly point by point when you come to our site, this is what you do. You come here, you put on the way bridge on it goes. So they could look at that before they even come in. I mean, I'm the same. I like to know what something's going to be like. Before I do it, I'm getting better at that as I've got older, but certainly in my younger years, I would research the hell out of everything before I even attempted it, you know, because I wanted certainty in my brain that I was going to be okay. I was going to be safe and it's the same thing. Yeah, 100%. Um, I think you've been in the yard for so long, like me, we can walk into a yard and we can get a feeling for what's going on, we can tell if stock isn't in the right place. You know that that could be a problem. The place is looking a bit dirty. What's going on here? Um, you know, whatever it might be There's a couple of scratches where they shouldn't be and a couple of equipment upsets us in the morning Some of the bins have been moved with it, you know digger and and that's now but that's not even go there. How much Data do you use? So, so we have that field. That's what we've always had. All of us have in our industry, the ones that have been through it. Um, but what data do you rely on? Do you have something? Could you do more of it? Yeah. So I am, I drive everyone mad with data. I work with my husband, um, and there's a lot of conversations that go like this. We need another crane. Why do you need another crane? Well, because they haven't loaded that lorry quickly enough. Well, we've, we've done less volume this month, so we don't need another crane. We're not spending another 300 K. No, the data doesn't need it. So yeah, data is king. So what we use is, um, a lot of people use it in the UK. It's called Fred. Basically that's the inventory base. Everything in everything out is live all the time. So from that perspective, again, I drive my Ops guy insane. D7 Copper doesn't look right. I've got a container coming in tomorrow. Chris, that doesn't look right to me. I've been down the yard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be alright. Well, it's not alright. It's definitely not okay. Something's been thrown in there that I don't like. I want it pulled out. I want everything weighed up. Well, how much should we have? Are you mad? You want me from my data to tell you how much we should have. So you can tell me what you think I want to hear. So I hate being told what people think I want to hear. It is my biggest bugbear in business. Please don't be a people pleaser. I don't need that. I don't want that. And the other thing is with non bearers. Upgrade, downgrade, clean up. So we've got this constantly moving parts. So, um, I'm, I'm the chef. At the end of the day, my data enables me to be the chef and it enables me to give my customers exactly what they want for their spec. So from the data, I go to the yard and I say, okay, we've bought in X, Y, and z. Do the mix for this particular contract is this. That's what I want. If I didn't have that, I couldn't run the yard. Not, not like I do because I wouldn't know my average pricing. I wouldn't know that I can put 20 percent of this product with this product and all of a sudden I'm making more margin. So that data, the vehicle movements, the, um, well, that bin's been on that site for six weeks now and it's not moved. Why hasn't it moved? you know, I'm not paying six and a half grand for a bin to sit there and do nothing. How do I know somebody else hasn't taken it off site? Oh, shoot. I could ramble on forever here. Without the data, you cannot do the job, you know? Data is you sound like Steve sounded a bit like he sounds a bit like me, uh, when I was always in the yard, it's like, Oh, we need another machine. We need this. So we need that because that's how it feels. And he's probably right as are you, right? Um, but you're using the data. So you went at the end and I think we are going to become more data driven in general. With the ability, you know, like you said, with Fred and the ability to get ERP systems, give us inventory or stock management and more and more information at our fingertips, um, I do believe we will, we will get better at that. And Steve and I will catch up and, and listen to you more and, uh, make better decisions, hopefully. So your team must absolutely love working for you guys. How do you make sure that the best employees don't go anywhere? And how do you keep that culture so strong to keep your best employees? Well, I'm not sure if I want to tell you this one because recruitment is a real tricky one, but you know what I think it is family first. You know, I have got a team that have grown up with us over the years through various businesses. I've kept most of them. Some of my lads have been with me since they were 15. They left school, they didn't know what to do, they come and they started on the broom and now they've got their lorry licenses, they've got their crane licenses, they know their metals, they've got a career. But through the way they've had breakups, they've had children, you know, the girlfriends left them, all of this, and I'm there. I'm the big hug in a mug. Is this something that's a little bit of an upset for the day? Come on, let's have a cup of tea and talk about it. Or has something major life happened where I'm going to say to you, I value you. Your job is here for life with me. You are secure. Go home and sort this out. I'm here if you need me. And then come back. I don't look on them as my workers. I look on them as an extension of my family, all of them. And that's in both yards. And I'm so proud actually, that they've managed to come from a place where they didn't get a formal education. It didn't work for them. And they've gone through the ranks. They've bought houses and I've been there every step of the way. That's an amazing feeling for me. And it keeps my staff in place. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, that's the, if I don't think everybody could take a page out of that book, because I think it's got to be seriously authentic. So it's not like we can advise listeners and go, Hey guys, start loving your people and treat them like family because that isn't everybody's, um, default setting. But if you have that, no doubt, your, your team is going to feel that. Um, and it makes a lot of sense why your team was so happy. How do you see technology impacting our industry over the next 5, 10, whatever years? I think the technology side of things is moving at such a fast pace. My hope is that it gives us faster data, a more open world, a more secure way of trading. My fear is it removes the personalities. Everybody I speak to that I work with, as I said, I do it because I like them generally. You know, there's something about them. If you get more than a couple of deals with me, it's because there's something going on and we've got a relationship. I fear that it will be removed. So I think the trick with the technology is is use it. Don't let it use you, but keep talking, keep your relationships going at the same time. And then we should be able to get that security that I keep talking about, grow our businesses in the right direction, serve the planet without being too woo woo. I mean, at the end of the day, what we're doing is recycling. You know, we need to do more of it. We need more help. We need more assistance and all that side of it. But let's really keep the personality on and say, I think technology has to add value. Um, and in our industry, it has to strengthen relationships or maintain relationships. It cannot erode them. Um, I think I know this very well, having done this for so long. Um, I'll openly say that some of my best friends, some of my. Most liked people in the world are people that I've met in this industry, right? Um, and, and we don't want the next generation not having that, even though the next generation operate very differently to us. They don't, they've moved away from phone calls. So when I traded, it was always phone calls that moved away. That's more on WhatsApp. It's going to slowly become that, but we've got to maintain those relationships, the ability to go for dinners. Something I love about this industry. We eat better than any other industry in the world. Yes. I mean, am I right? Absolutely the best ever. I mean, I remember being at a BIR. We were some quite big hitters in our industry a few years back and we're sitting cross legged on a cushion around a low table, having the most fabulous Indian meal all of us. And it was like, I was the mother of the group. So it was only me as the only woman there. So I kind of, I was ordering for everyone and we were chatting and it's having a drink and it's the feeling that like the bubble inside you is just so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Um, how have you utilized. Capital to grow your business. Now it's quite an interesting one. This I've had some people say, don't give away equity because if you give away equity, well, it's worth way more than that money was worth what you would have spent or borrowed for the assets. Um, but then other people say, you know, the end of the day, just rather borrow the money from the bank and, um, get on with it cause it'll help you grow your business. So what have you done and what do you recommend? You know, Yeah, so I think it's, um, equity. I'm not a fan of, um, I think we work hard with what we do. So to have somebody coming along periodically and asking for reams of data that you can't possibly understand and maybe saying to you, well, that grade there, you paid more than you sold it for. What the hell do you think you're doing? That's never going to work for me. You know, part of what we do and what we do well is the knowledge we've learned. And you can't, you can't explain that on a piece of paper. Um, I think you have to slow yourself down sometimes. I think there is an easy option to borrow, borrow, borrow, and you can stack that up and make it look like it's all fine, but actually having your own money in the bank that you've taken a little bit longer to put there, put the profits in the bank, don't take it all out for yourself, work that, which is something I've just done this time. is I've worked the situation to get myself to a point where actually other than some of my assets, my crowns, I don't have any finance. I self finance at this point. That won't be forever, but I pay everybody quickly and it's my own money and I like that. Moving forward, I will always finance my cranes, et cetera, but that's straightforward. I'm going to give you a deposit and I'm going to repay that over three years or four, whatever the kit is. Bringing people in from outside the industry that have no idea about the industry. I think is a really slippery road because I've had horror stories of 10 percent for X amount. Well, you're not reaching your covenant. So what we're going to do is we're going to pull the rug or we're going to take another 10 percent of you and they chip and they chip and they chip and they don't support, they don't come to the table and go, actually, this isn't quite making what you said it was going to do. How can we help you to hit that covenant? They just say, you're not hitting that covenant, end of, pull the rug. There's some amazing businesses that have gone under because of that very reason. There's no support there. Um, so yeah, for me, try and, I drag Steve down by the ankles. It's well known by everybody around us, all our friends. Steve is a machine. Bigger, bigger, bigger, you know, he likes big women. He likes big yards. He likes big machines. And we work well because I've got him by the ankles. I'm like, yeah, baby. That's fab. That will work in the next 12 months in the next six months. So try and secure your position is what I would say. I don't know if that's answered your question. That's incredible advice. No, that is incredible advice. That really is. That's just what I'm looking for. Um, your advice, your personal advice on how to treat. And how do you treat the capital needed for that? Um, as I said, everybody's got their own view. No one's right. Everybody's got what's right for them. Um, and it's usually based on, or based from experiences that they've had themselves and, and that's what we try and get out from the, so that was absolutely perfect. Tell me though, um, When you do buy the new equipment, how do you decide if you need it? And after that, how do you decide what you need? Okay. As in which brand? Yeah. Yeah. So if we need is, is generally about if I want to buy more market share. And if I look at, this is really simple. If I look out of my window, which is upstairs and I'm looking out of the whole yard, And I have a crane parked up for more than 25 percent of the time. I don't need another crane. Simple. Forklift, lorry, crane. I've got data. I can back it up. But if that's happening, I don't need it. Unless we're bringing on another contract. That's gonna need that moving forward again. Sweat the asset. Don't just do it because you can and because it would be nice or because you've made too much money this year. Sweat your asset, you know, um, so that's the basic. If it's sitting there doing nothing on equipment, you've already got and that equipment isn't costing you money and repairs and renewals. Don't buy another one. End of. And how do you decide what you're going to get? So say you decide you want another digger, um, a material handler, how do you decide which brand to go for? You know, we're stuck in our ways. We are, you know, we have had the same people supplying equipment to us for years and they give us good service. You know, um, and I think that's the thing the after service for me is probably almost more important than the initial purchase because if that equipment goes down for whatever reason, I'm at standstill. If I've got two grabs operating in the yard and one goes down and I'm loading 10 containers that day. I've got a problem. The whole place is at a sand still. So for me after service, they've got to get there in 24 hours. Everybody says they can do that. But if I stick to what I know, and they've proven they can do that, and they've proven the same thing in other people's yards. Well, then it works. So that's really, for me, it's the aftercare and the reputation. I'm constantly asking people, how'd you get on with that machine? What do you think of that skid steer? How does that work for you? Because that's just data building in my brain for the next purchase. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And tell me, What's the worst purchase you've made, or best purchase you've made? If it's the worst, don't mention the brand. Um, worst purchase. Wasn't the worst purchase. We, um, a really great piece of kit. Very high volume, but we weren't ready for it. It was a bit like, you know, when you start cracking on in business and let's liken it to a car and you, you've got a pickup truck and you want a Range Rover. You're not quite there yet, but you go by the Range Rover anyway, and you go, it's okay. Cause I will be there. I will get to that point. And we bought something sooner than we should have done for an awful lot of money. To grow into I am not a fan of we will grow into it I know some people are I know some people go and go, you know once you know If they build what is it if you build it, they will come they will come Um, i'm not a fan of that so that that would be a bit of a A mistake, a great piece of equipment, but too soon for me was the mistake. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Great one. Um, I've been the guy who jumps off the cliff and builds the airplane on the way down. I'm like, yeah, let's just go buy it and we'll buy the metal. I'll find the metal. So, um, yeah, I need, you know, lucky I've got my wife holding my ankles, but sometimes I need that more than sometimes, um, who, and this is kind of the last few questions now. Um, But who would you like to hear next on Born Scrappy? Oh, wow, that's a good one, isn't it? Who would I like to hear next? Hmm. I think you haven't, um, had Suzy Burridge on. I'm not sure if she would be able to, but, um, I'd like to hear from Suzy, because Suzy's from the same background as me, and now she's president of everything. So her growth's been awesome, really amazing, and I'd like to hear what she's got to say about the yard situation and her actual business, you know? We've got, we've got Robin Weiner from ISRI, who's on, um, a couple weeks just before ISRI, so we talked to her about sustainability and, um, I think we reached out to Susie before, um, based on this I will absolutely reach out to Susie again and say that Amy Bird said she has to, so, uh, then she will come on, right? Well, she's at my event on Friday is my woman in scrap event and Susie's in the room. So I'll have a word with her as well. Sounds fantastic. So the last thing we do is a bit of getting to know Amy a little bit better before we go. And this is, I always say, so when somebody sees you at the next conference and wants to break the ice, they can either tell you they like the same movie or book or whatever it might be. So do you have a favorite TV show or favorite movie? Um, movie. I love a star is born with Lady Gaga. I just, I just love it. I mean, I cry every time, you know, you always needed to cry, but I just think like the message behind it. She's fierce, isn't she? She stands there. She stands by him. She rises up and she's got all that going on at the same time. So, yeah, I love that. My boys listen to shallow in the car a lot. It's one of their favorite songs. Yeah. So we built that out in the car. So I've only seen the movie once, but listen to the song about 10, 000 times. Oh, the soundtrack's insane. Yeah, it's so good. She's, she's amazing. Um, do you have a favorite book? Um, I do a lot of audiobooks because I travel kind of 300 mile round trip between my two sites. So I have a lot of that going on. Um, there's a book called The Influence Effect and it delves into the science of how Men and women actually are genuinely different. Like it's not a thing, you know, you were saying how you don't sometimes rely on the data, but a bit like my husband and then your wife is there, that's not our fault. Like that's just the way we're programmed. So I think it's quite, that's a great book because you go, yeah, I get it. It's not his fault. He's not just being a bit of an ass today. You know, it's, it's a good one to listen to. Yeah, it makes sense. I guess what your influences were in your life dictates the way you behave in the future, and I'm sure genetics and gender must play a huge, huge role in that. Yeah, absolutely. What's your favorite place to visit? Uh, Brazil. What a place. I just, you know. First time someone mentioned Brazil, yeah. I, I did a trip to Brazil and I can remember being like a little fishing boat going down a river somewhere and a pod of dolphins just come along and everybody just jumped out of the boat and went swimming just right there with the dolphins. And then we were staying on, god I could ramble forever, we were staying on a ranch and this guy had the most amazing horses and he let me ride one of his big, big beasts. Through the rainforest and it just one of the moments that stick in your mind, galloping through a rainforest on this beast of a horse. Uh, just, I love it there. Love it. Love it. Yeah, that's so cool. And to finish off, um, everybody in our industry loves their quotes. Have you got a favorite quote you use or stuck up on the wall or something? Okay. Uh, bear no malice. It will hurt you a lot more than it hurts them. Very, very good. Love that one. Yeah. Amy, that's a great way to end the show. Um, it's been lots of fun. I, I think we could have spoken for another five hours. Definitely. It's late at night here, so I'm glad we didn't. But, um, it's been awesome. I'm going to have a lot of editing to make this shorter. Um, but that's been lots of fun. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Amy. Oh, I loved it. Thank you so much. Awesome. Cheers. We'll see you soon. Bye.
